UED:同济大学位居上海,相对于北京来说更加国际化,与市场更接近。但人们总希望大学具有历史感,面对当今纷繁复杂的建筑思想和建筑作品,您认为应该如何把握建筑的历史感与前卫思想的冲撞?张斌:前卫并不是完全摆脱开历史的,与历史无关的前卫也是不可能的。20世纪初的西方的前卫思想也都是从具体的历史当中出来的,是一个与历史条件有关的思想。思想终归是和历史有关,与整体的社会条件有关,看这个时代到底是要解决什么问题。从这个角度理解,我觉得不可能有一个脱离历史传承的前卫。国际化也是相对的,国际化既不能带来多少好处,也不是什么坏事,它只是一个外加的因素或者说压力。我觉得更重要的还是自身的实践,最关键的还是与整个历史及文化的传承关系。我觉得自身对历史的认识及对自己工作清晰 UED: Tongji University is in Shanghai, more international than Beijing and closer to the market. However, people always hope that the university has a sense of history. In the face of today’s complicated architectural thought and architectural works, how do you think that the historic sense of architecture should be clashed with the avant-garde ideas? Zhang Bin: Avant-garde is not completely free from history and history Irrelevant avant-garde is impossible. The avant-garde ideas in the west of the early twentieth century also came out of concrete history, which is a thought related to historical conditions. After all, our thinking is related to history and to the overall social conditions, and we must see what problems this issue needs to be solved in the end. From this perspective, I do not think it is possible to have avant-garde that departs from the historical heritage. Internationalization is also relative. Internationalization can bring neither benefit nor bad thing. It is only an external factor or pressure. I think it is more important or our own practice, the most critical or heritage and the entire history and culture relations. I think my understanding of history and my work are clear